bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob. Isaiah 41:21
In a sermon earlier this year, Pastor Turner presented a challenge to any minister or preacher (competent to accept it) to arrange for an open forum discussion of the following:
1) The indisputable evidence for "The Doctrines Of Grace" -- so-called five point Calvinism (TULIP) -- in the Bible.
2) The inerrancy, infallibility, and purity of the word of God in the English language as found in the AV1611 King James Bible.
3) The false religion, false Christ, false faith and false hope contained in modern translations of the Bible which have deliberately corrupted the word of God.
4) The impurity of the corporate "churches" (501-3c) which have become vassals of the state (and even more insidiously of the "Church of Rome").
To demonstrate his confidence in the truth of his position -- because it is revealed in the word of God and by indisputble evidence from history -- Pastor Turner offered to conduct his side of the discussion without directly consulting the Bible or other books.
A gentleman who visited the AV1611Reformation.com website and saw the challenge offered by Pastor Turner recently attempted to arrange such a forum featuring Pastor Turner and the following prominent internet "preachers" among others: David Cloud, Dave Hunt, Peter S. Ruckman, Gail Ripplinger.
Interestingly, none of those contacted was willing to accept the challenge as the correspondence below demonstrates.
Subsequent to the back-and-forth e-mails Pastor Turner preached the sermon "A New Generation" to specifically address how these preachers, and others like them harm the Church and deny God's word while embracing doctrines contrary to revealed truth. This subject was also covered in an audio sermon posted on this website "Message for Bashers of Calvinism" .
All visitors to this website are invited to review this material, and to come to a fair judgement regarding it.
The correspondence mentioned above is posted here for your review:
show details Oct 14
From: “joseph alexander”
To: “Nelson Turner”
Dear Sir,
I recently listened to your sermon on Calvinist bashers(relistened I should say). I was wondering if you had personally delivered that challenge to any prominent anti-Calvinists eg. Peter Ruckman,David Cloud, Dave Hunt etc. If you haven't I would like to deliver it personally to possibly all three of the above mentioned. I saw a Ruckman video some time ago, in which Ruckman was exulting that he had won a debate with a Calvinist: actually, no one had showed up for the debate, and Ruckman was declaring that he had won the debate. It would be great if a debate between yourself and the above mentioned could be posted on say You Tube.
Sincerely
Joseph Alexander
Joseph Alexander sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.thebereancall.org/contact/E-mail+Questions.
This is directed to Mr. Dave Hunt. Would you be interested in engaging in
debate with a Calvinist? This would be a public debate and will have to be
broadcast on the Internet. I am not the Calvinist debater but there is such
a Calvinist on the Internet,who is challenging all Calvinist bashers such
as yourself in open public debate. Please let me know.
From: "joseph alexander"
To: "Nelson Turner"
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:11:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: FW:
Dear Sir,
forwarding the great champion's response to my request. Seems like you are right,they will not engage in honest debate.
Joseph Alexander
----- Forwarded Message -----
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:49:22 -0700
From: customerservice@thebereancall.org
To: joseph alexander
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [E-mail Questions] Calvinism Debate]
Hello
It is difficult to see anything productive coming from a challenge highlighted by name calling: "there is such a Calvinist on the Internet,who is challenging all Calvinist bashers such as yourself in open public debate." It is indeed of concern that the admonition of Ephesians 4:29 seems to have been forgotten by many today. In truth, some have asked: Why does Dave Hunt refuse to debate publicly with James White? The book, "Debating Calvinism" is not a valid, helpful exchange. Is Dave afraid to have his views examined by Mr. White?”
Consider the reasoning. If Dave were afraid to have his views examined by Mr White, why did he invest months in a book that preserves his views, thoughts, and position for anyone to examine at length, repeatedly, and at their leisure? The reader can examine the statements, their sources, go back and forth between the two positions, and examine with greater depth than allowed in a live debate format. It is not reasonable, therefore, to state that the book "Debating Calvinism" is "not a valid, helpful exchange."
Due to its very nature a live debate may often give only a snapshot analysis of the issues involved. While it may prove a partisan crowd pleaser, it is simply incorrect to deem it a superior forum. For these reasons, Mr Hunt has decided that the book will stand as his response.
Further, Dave has previously replied to accusations that he has ducked debates in the past: http://www.thebereancall.org/calbook.htm
Finally, as Dave enters his 84th year, he believes the Lord would have him concentrate upon finishing the books he has before him. Some of these are projects which have been in process for several years. Consequently, he regrets that he can no longer reply regarding the many books, articles, and other materials he regularly receives. His speaking schedule has also been greatly reduced to a few meetings a year to those Dave has had a long time commitment.
Because of this, Dave has had to regretfully decline all requests for critique or comment.
Your understanding and prayers are certainly requested.
Thank you for writing.
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: joseph alexander
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:41 AM
To: dcloud@wayoflife.org
Subject:
Dear Sir,
Would you be interested in debating a Calvinist? Please understand that I am not that person. I am simply conveying a message from a Calvinist on the Internet who has made an open challenge to all comers. Please let me know.
Sincerely
Joseph Alexander
From: “joseph alexander”
To: “Nelson Turner”
Here is the great "Baptist" contender of the faith's reply
Joseph Alexander
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: dcloud@wayoflife.org
To: joseph alexander
Subject: RE:
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:10:01 +0545
I am not a debater. D. Cloud
Pastor Turner's Reply (show details Oct 16)
drogheda@comcast.net to joseph, et al
This only highlights what I said in the message concerning Calvinist bashers. I am not a prophet, but I know that God has called me to preach the everlasting Gospel and earnestly contend for the faith. As God gives me grace, I will meet all challengers [who are in denial of the Doctrines of Grace and the infallibility of the King James Bible] as the providence of God allows. These men are reprobate concerning the faith, by their own testimony, and have shown us they have not the same spirit as Paul and the apostles. In spiritual warfare, there is no quarter, no holding back the sword of the spirit from blood. To the Lord Jesus Christ alone be all honor, praise, blessing glory and power, both now and forever more. Pastor Nelson C. Turner
No comments:
Post a Comment